Wednesday, July 07, 2010

I was hacked as a result of my conversation with a Muslim

Update 9th July 2010: Fauzisg2 emailed me personally to clarify the issue. I owe him an apology if he is not the hacker.

Update 8th July 2010: Strangely the deleted comments re-appear again in the post when I checked it this morning!

I was having a correspondence with a Muslim by the pseudonym 'fauzisg2' on my post on Islamization and Activism in Malaysia.

The correspondence started about 5 days ago. As I was replying fauzisg2 just now, I realized that some of his previous comments have been deleted. While investigating that matter, to my horror, I found out that my comments which respond to fauzisg2's deleted comments are also vanished!

fauzisg2 can delete his own comments, but how does he or anyone delete my comments?

This has never happened before. Could it be that fauzisg2 found that it is not enough to delete his own (assuming it's a 'he'), so he hacked into my blogger account and deleted mine as well?

I suspect that is the case. If it is, then it is an embarrassment for Muslims like fauzisg2 to resort to such uncivilized tactic in a correspondence.

But anyway, I will paste both the deleted comments made my fausizg2 (in green) and my responses (in black) here so that every readers are hold accountable:

fausizg2's first deleted response, wrote on 5th July:
"Hi again Sze Zeng,

I'll try to elaborate about Azlina Jailani's case and I hope you and all the readers here can understand about it.

What is mahkamah Syariah? It is a house of Islamic laws to protect and to bring up justice for Muslim and non-Muslim. For me mahkamah Syariah is like a parent who will protect their children (the followers) and willing to guide them to their own goodness, and will give them advice when needed.

So in the case of Azlina Jailani (Lina Joy), Mahkamah Syariah has right to know (since she was a Muslim) what is the main reason that she want to leave Islam and this question will be asking during the counseling session and if the reason is reasonable she can go ahead (convert out of Islam) but if not, let say she want to leave Islam because she has some misunderstanding about some of the Islamic teachings so the experts in mahkamah Syariah have right to educate and counseling her on that matters and possibly they will have some dialogues with her to clear up the matters.

But unfortunately Azlina Jailani (Lina Joy) never at all try to bring her case to mahkamah Syariah (WHY???) and then, ironically, some of us allegedly say that Islam has prevent her from practicing what she believe, whereas she herself hesitate to do the trial in mahkamah Syariah, this is not fair for Muslim and Islam.

I hope you and all the readers can understand what is happening on Azlina Jailani case.

And I too want to thanks you for let my messages to appear here. TQ!"


fauzisg2's second deleted response, wrote on 5th July:
"Hi everybody..

Reasonable thanks for your comment, in order to reason with you, I need to ask you something and by your answer I will try to explain my point of view regarding the "religious rule". The question is easy, Is Jesus God (in Christianity)?

And to Sze Zeng, since Azlina Jailani has raised up as a Muslim until her matured age and then only after that she want to convert out from Islam, so she was in the house of Islam and in the house of her parent (Islamic Laws - mahkamah Syariah) before, and if she want 'to move' out she has to has a good reason for that. She can move out but first she has to face her parent (mahkamah Syariah)....I think this is so reasonable no matter whether you are Buddist or Hindus or Christians, this is what we normally practicing in the family - for the good of everybody, and for us Azlina Jailani (Lina Joy) is our sister in the house of Islam, if she go away because of something that she not really understand about her faith (Islam) so we as Muslim will try to educate her on that matter otherwise we are not fair for let her in the doubt. And of cause we not force her to believe (in Islam) but we will try to reason with her and the decision is hers. Can you imagine your younger sister want to move out without give a noticed to your parent?

This process (mahkamah Syariah) is a part of Islamic teaching, and for me non-Muslim should not mingle on it as we Muslim not mingle on your religious teachings (we ought should respect each other). Moreover this mahkamah Syariah will not burn her alive as what was happens in India (as Reasonable has bring up) and if you noticed in Kartika case (she took alcohol), in Pahang, mahkamah Syariah has let her go without punishment just because she said that she has repented.

Unlike Kartika, Azlina Jailani never bring her case to mahkamah Syariah, and no trial on her at all, no judges have made any decision of her case in mahkamah Syariah but non-Muslim now allegedly claim that Muslim has prevented her from what she believe.....just not fair at all.

But I wonder why if Azlina Jailani really has some good reasons for convert out from Islam, why she afraid to go to mahkamah Syariah?"


My deleted response, wrote on 5th July:
"Hi fauzisg2,

The question is not on the legitimacy of Syariah over Muslims. As I have already expressed my agreement with you earlier on that it is fine that Syariah holds its judiciary over Muslims.

So it is not an issue of a daughter in the family that has moved out from the family without reason.

Lina Joy's case, as I have stated in my second and third reply to you, is that she is not part of the family anymore. The Syariah is not her real parent according to her own conscience.

So the illustration of "moving out" from a family that you used does not provide an accurate analogy for Lina Joy's case. In her case, it is a situation where she has found out who her real parent is. And she has renowned any relationship from the parent she once thought was her real parent.

With this new consideration in mind, she doesn't need to acknowledge the relationship (parent-daughter) she once had with the person she used to think was her parent.

So the more accurate illustration is not "Can you imagine your younger sister want to move out without give a noticed to your parent?"

A better illustration should be this: Can I imagine my younger sister chose to renown the family based on her expressed conscience which was the result of her current knowledge, and hence does not need to acknowledge me as her brother anymore?

Yes I can imagine that. If my younger sister chose not to acknowledge me as her brother based on her expressed conscience resulted from her current knowledge, then that's fine to me.

Kartika's is different from Lina Joy's case. The former still acknowledge Syariah to be her parent. So it is right that she submits herself to her parent.

The latter already has no whatsoever relationship with the Syariah. Hence she has no obligation to submit to the syariah as one submit to a parent. If Lina Joy submits, then that is like acknowledging a person who is not her parent as her parent.

Now, can you imagine a situation where you are being asked, contrary to your knowledge and conscience, to address someone who is not your father as your father?"


fauzisg2's third deleted response, wrote on 6th July:
"Hello Sze Zeng,

TQ! for this beautiful discussion. I see that from time to time your understanding on Islam is increasing, that is good.

But since you are not well expose to the Islamic teaching, there is still something that is so important about Islam that you over look. Here I will try to veil up that matter. Islam is the way of life reveal by Almighty God to mankind, Islam teaches every aspect of life, from the moment you wake up until the moment you go to bed again - even Islam teaches of how we should sleep, and I'm not kidding you, it is real.

Look at this, no other religion other than Islam that have their own ways of banking, we have! (e.g. Maybank Islamic etc. etc), Islam has guided us on that matter too.

If even in the tiny little thing like how to sleep has been guided by Islam, what about the most important thing such as how to get the salvation which will promise you the successful life in here after (everlasting life). In order for that successful, Islamic rules and regulations (mahkamah syariah) is there to assist you - just like your parent, they are there to help you.

One should understand that there is no terminology like 'mind your own business' in Islam, no, every thing that you are doing is measured in Islam, including if you want to convert out from Islam, we have an act on that. And when somebody want to convert out from Islam the act is waiting for him or her to face it. So they must undergo the trial process in mahkamah Syariah because this is the part of our teaching, nobody can ever escape from this process.

Remember this is a part of our teaching, nobody has right to stop it just like nobody has right to stop you from praying in the church because it is a part of the teaching in Christianity, do Muslims have right to stop you from attending your congregation? The answer is no!, do Christians have right to stop the jurisdiction of mahkamah Syariah, including it authority on whom want to convert out from Islam? And the answer is no too, because it is a part of the Islamic request.

As I said, to trial is more on counseling process or learning process. If she still want to convert out from Islam, it is her right but she must undergo the trial (in mahkamah Syariah) first because it is a part of our Islamic teaching, I hope you can understand.

So in Islam, whether you are convert in or convert out from Islam will be referred to Islamic laws. In islam there is no simply come in or go out just like that, no!

So I hope you and all the readers here will understand about the Islamic laws."


My non-deleted response (paste here so that readers may follow the argument), wrote on 6th July:
"Hi fauzisg2,

Thank you for explaining.

I understand it is part of your Islamic teaching.

I just want to give you a hypothetical scenario and see what is your response.

You are born into Christian family. You found out that Christianity is no longer your religion. So you decided to renown it and stop acknowledging it as your real religion.

But Christianity says that you cannot renown it and stop acknowledging it as your religion simply because you found out that it is not your real religion. They Christian Council requires you to get permission from them in your decision even when you are already convinced in your conscience and knowledge that Christianity is not your real religion.

Would you still submit to Christianity and the Christian Council to get permission from them to renown from your faith?

If you do, you are contradicting your own knowledge and conscience of who you are and what you stand for. And if you are alright to live in contradiction, then that is fine to you. But other people are not that alright to live in contradiction. So in this case, if you chose to live in contradiction by submitting to the Christian Council, then everyone should respect your choice. But if you chose not to live in contradiction by disregarding the Christian Council, then everyone should also respect your choice.

So would you or would you not submit?"

1 comment:

Chuah said...

Regards

I am Chuah, just drop by. Nice web that you have and so informative, very good effort in student level. Regarding your conversation with the muslim, I think you can improve batter. You must respond to them with concrete answer rather than to let them to monopolize the arena. However this is very good step for the student like you, keep it the good work.